Family matters.

I have finally begun to publish the family tree on Ancestry.com, but am doing it the hard way ie one person at a time, rather than by importing a gedcom file. This enables me to check the facts as I go and also to compile a list of questions still to be answered. At my current rate of work I estimate it will take me 5 years to complete – perhaps I’d better speed things up a bit!

The advantage of having the tree on Ancestry.com is that the program immediately provides links to other people researching the same people, access to appropriate historical links and various hints.  The disadvantage in all this is that it can be very confusing and divert one from the current matter in hand – I must not get distracted!!

I have added a few of Ann’s siblings to the website plus the name of her mother.  There are many family trees on Ancestry.com which mention this family – due perhaps to the large numbers of children produced by various members of the family – but none of them shows the information (with satisfactory proof) that I am seeking at the moment.

This information is

a) Ann’s death date – I have already sent away for two certificates but still have a couple more to try

& b) her father’s date of birth – I can find no record of his baptism on the IGI.

Thanks once again to the LDS site – http://FamilySearch.org – I have found some more information on William Hutchings. His origins have been unknown so far, mainly due to wrong assumptions (see previous posts).  The only census (1851) to show his birthplace shows it as Tong in Kent, but I assumed this was meant to be Thong, a village quite close to the Hoo peninsula where he subsequently lived.  However, I have found a whole batch of Hutchins (without the final g -spellings are always variable) in a village well south of the Hoo area, called, you guessed it, Tong!

There is a slight problem with dates, his baptism is shown as 1797 (cf the  2 censuses (1841 & 1851) which show his birthdate as 1799) – this could be correct, or it could be an error on the part of the transcriber. Such errors are not uncommon on the LDS site, I always try to double check things if I can.  In this case I have been unable to find any parish records for Tong online – perhaps in time they will come.  Either way, I am happy that this is the correct family, so that is a step forward – or is that backward?

Next job is to put all the new information on my website etc.

It’s been an exciting week for this family historian as I have found out a bit more about Robert Capon Guy (1829-1903). Until now I knew very little about his early years as I could not find him in the 1841 census, or indeed any record of his birth.  Censuses indicated he was born in Ashbourne Derbyshire, but I could find no trace of this.  All I knew of his parents was that his father’s name was William and that on Robert’s marriage certificate his occupation was listed as “gentleman”.

I had wondered about the name “capon” , as it is unusual and assumed that it was from his father’s side (somehow thinking gentlemen can have unusual names). Anyway, it turns out that the name was his mother’s surname (which is in fact a common practice to give the maiden name as a second christian name) – my assumption had led me astray.  I had also assumed finding other members of this family would be easier because of this name, but the only one that cropped up (in the right time frame) was a William Capon Guy – but he was born in Norfolk so I assumed that was a different family.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, Robert may have been born in Ashbourne Derby (there is another brother born there) but was baptised in Gloucester.  This seems to have been a family that moved around a bit as it turns out, they originated in Norfolk  – yes, William Capon was another brother – and in fact the parents were born there.

So, the sequence is, Norfolk until about 1824, then a gap, then Derby  about 1829, then a move to Gloucester where another son was born in 1833.  After that who knows, possibly London as Robert appears there in 1851 and the aforesaid William Capon died there in 1840. .  I can find no trace of any of them in the 1841 census and indeed the parents seem to have vanished after 1833.

As for the gentleman bit, well William the parent started off as a tailor (his son Robert’s later occupation) – I don’t know how he got from there to the status of gentleman!  What I need is an inspired guess – I’m trying to give up assumptions!

Next job – to get all the information on to my website!

Update on my latest investigations – have put new information on George Henry Froud into website and TMG – still to file away relevant papers.  He seems to have had a third Christian name i.e. Moses –according to one of the Ancestry.com contributors.  I haven’t seen evidence of that myself so perhaps it is”inside information” so to speak – eg handed down in the family bible?

Am now looking at his wife Harriet Barden –  found a lot of her siblings and names of parents – they seemed to stay in Staplehurst in Kent for many years where Harriet herself was born – but, the only marriage I can find is in Maidstone.  Harriet’s mother seems to have been born in Staplehurst but as there are two Ann Craddocks born within 3 years of each other there, it is difficult to say which is ours.  Harriet’s father is a mystery too, cannot find his birthplace – as yet.

I have just been inspired to start up again on the family history. As an experiment,  I had printed off a six-generation ancestry chart from my website and noticed there were a few blank spaces waiting to be filled, so I accessed the Latter Day Saints site – www.familysearch.org –  in the vague hope of finding information which has eluded me for years.  I  have used this site before with mixed success, but I was amazed to find how efficient it now is at finding information.  I doubt whether my research skills have improved to any great extent, so I attribute the success of this attempt to this greatly improved site – so hats off to the LDS for providing this great facility, at no charge, to all and sundry.

The upshot of this is that I have extended the history of five families back a further generation – I feel like dancing a jig!  Now I have the job of putting all this information into the right places, so it’s back to work, hooray!

Further information on these children –

1. Robert – all I  have on  him so far is a copy of a death in 1813.  Name & time would fit, but I have no  proof. I have looked but been unable to find a birth entry for Robert, either under the Hooker surname or under Cleaver.

2. Elizabeth – born 1813, christened on 8th October 1813 at St Albans, Wood St, London.  I have a copy of marriage registration for 1841 -she married William Judge,  (1812-1876 – unchecked). I cannot find her on the 1841 census, she was most likely working as a domestic servant somewhere. I have a copy of her whereabouts in the 1851 census, but by 1861 William is noted as a widower, so she died before then.  Sam has provided a death reference for 1858 (September quarter St Luke 1b 345), I will send for this certificate to confirm. The children of Elizabeth & William were – Elizabeth b. 1844, Sophia Ann b. 1846, Mary b. 1848, and Charles William Robert b. 1853 – he seems to have been known by various combinations of his name in different records. I cannot find another child noted by Sam ie William Joseph Judges b. 1849.

3. William Henry –  I have a copy of a birth entry for William (June 24th, 1815, St. Botolphs Aldersgate, London) and a copy of his marriage certificate to Mary Ann Smith (July 7th 1839 at Christ Church Newgate St City of London). I also have a copy of the 1841 census where he is living with his wife and infant son William  – the household also includes William Judge, future husband of his sister Elizabeth (& Christiana -see below). After that things seem to become a bit obscure.  In the 1851 census there is an excellent family almost fitting the bill, except that the parents were born in Croyden Surrey, so that is no good. (ps to that, I just found that family in the 1841 census, so definitely not ours – curses!)   I looked for the son William born 1841, but no luck.  There are a number of possibilities eg William Sr died and  Mary Ann remarried & changed her name, William was  transported to  Australia (I did find a likely candidate for that), the family emigrated to America (Sam did find an earlier William Henry Hooker who had gone to live and died in America, perhaps they joined his family over there) or they may still be in London and I just haven’t found them – more to do there obviously.  PS. I have now found a likely family in the 1861 and 1871 censuses, but it doesn’t clear things up.  Mary Ann is listed as the head of the household, but is noted as married, not widowed, so presumably William is around somewhere.  The children in the 1851 census  are listed as  Henry b. 1843, George b. 1846, Mary Ann b. 1849, Christiannah b. 1851, Ann (in 1871 listed as Sarah Ann) b. 1853 and Harriet b. 1856.  Now, if these children are William’s, then he must be around somewhere (not transported or emigrated) but where?  I guess my next move could be to send for a birth certificate of one or more of these children to see who the father was.  I usually send for a number of certificates in one go , so I’ll wait until I have finished exploring this family before sending away – hopefully, the increased cost of the certificates will be offset by the good exchange rate – ie if I ever get around to doing it !!

4. Christiana – well, I was way off with Christiana’s later movements. Some time after 1861 she moved in with William Judge (the widower of her older sister Elizabeth) and they produced a daughter, Christiana Louise , in 1865 (neither Sam nor I has been able to find any registration of her birth).  From the 1871 census on, she is shown as Judge, not Hooker, though neither Sam nor I could find a marriage.  By 1881 she was widowed and had moved to Chigwell in Essex with her daughter and is still there in 1891.  Sam has given me a death reference which is in 1898, so I will send for that certificate eventually. Her daughter in 1892 married a cousin George Henry Judge and the 1901 census shows them with 2 daughters living in Epping Essex.

5. James – not much more to report on him – have added a few details of some of his children (found in the wealth of material that Sam gave me) and will expound further on his wife, Elizabeth Evans at some stage.

6/7 – no further information on Robert and Sarah Ann as yet.

Hooray, after 3 false starts have finally found the death of Elizabeth. She died on 9th December 1864 in the Union Workhouse, Mile End.  I am about to put a copy of the certificate on the Tribal Pages website.  Interestingly, the certificate shows that her husband, Thomas Haines, was still alive then, though the 1841 & 1851 censuses do not show them living at the same address – must explore Thomas Haines a bit more I think!

In my last post I had a bit of a panic about whether or not I had the right Elizabeth, but now am fairly certain all is well.  Her birth entry shows she was christened in 1793 at St Andrew  Holborn and this is supported by the 1851 census.  Her parents are named as Robert & Sarah Cleaver and on her marriage certificate to Thomas Haines in 1847, her father is named as Robert.  Phew!

I have found a marriage entry for  Elizabeth’s parents,Robert Cleaver and Sarah Cowdrey, at St Andrew Holborn 1n 1785. I will put a copy on the Tribalpages website.

 I also have a birth entry which could possibly be Sarah Cowdrey’s – St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey 1766 – but no way of proving that this is actually her. 

As for Robert Cleaver’s birth, the trail runs cold in London – I can find no suitable candidate – though there are some likely ones in other counties, particularly Oxforshire.  However, the problem of proof still remains as with Sarah.

For the meantime then,  that is as far back as I can go.

1. 1786 – Frances Sarah – baptised 21st Dec. 1786 – St Andrew Holborn – parents Robert & Sarah Cleaver – address Southampton Buildings

2. 1788 – Sarah Elizabeth – baptised 1st June 1788 – St Andrew Holborn – parents Robert & Sarah Cleaver – address Southampton Buildings. Note from Sam says she was living in  workhouse in 1851 census, occupation, servant.

3. 1790 – Robert – baptised 14th April 1790 – St Andrew Holborn – parents Robert & Sarah – address Southampton Buildings.

 On the 13th March 1791 there is a burial notice for a Robert Cleaver, address given as  Southampton Buildings. It seems very likely that this is him.

4. 1792 – Mary Ann – baptised 5th Feb 1792 –  St Andrew Holborn –  parents Robert & Sarah – address Southampton buildings. 

On  23rd Jan 1794 there is a death notice for a Mary Cleaver of Staple Inn Buildings, which could well be Mary as by then the family had moved to Staple Inn buildings (see baptism notices of subsequent children).

5. 1793 – our Elizabeth.

6. 1797 – Christian – baptised 13th Feb 1797 – St Andrews Holborn – parents Robert & Sarah – address Staple Inn Buidings.  Note from Sam says he was living in Marlebone in 1851 census, occupation tailor.

7. 1799 – James William – baptised 13th Oct 1799 – St Andrew Holborn – parents Robert & Sarah – address Staple Inn Buildings.

On 15th November 1801 there is a death notice for a James Cleaver of Staple Inn Buildings, which could be him.  Rather worryingly, there is also , on the same date, a burial notice for Elizabeth Cleaver of Staple Inn buildings.  Applying the same thinking, this could be our Elizabeth (if not, who else?) which would mean I am completely off track -aaaggghhh!

There are other Cleaver families living in the same area – Edward/Mary, Edward/Sarah, George/Dorothy, Benjamin Jane – so this Elizabeth could be one of theirs, but then, so could the Elizabeth Cleaver who married Robert Hooker  – back to the drawing board!