Family matters.

I have put a copy of her marriage certificate to Thomas Haines on the website.

Well, I’ve finally got around to putting the information about Grandad’s medals and service record on the family history website (http://storial.tribalpages.com). 

It’s in the People/Stories section and is called   –  yes, you guessed it –     “Grandad’s Medals/Service Record”!

All I have to do now is return the medals to my sister!

I have finally received the marriage certificate re the marriage of Elizabeth Sarah Edwards and Edward Sullivan and it shows that this was a different Elizabeth to the one I am interested in.  The father of the bride is named as John Edwards, not George Hutchings, so I have not discovered a long line of lost rellies.

This raises an interesting question – do I inform the people who have this information on their family tree in Ancestry.com?  It seems a bit arrogant of me to contact them and say “hello, you are wrong”,  especially as their records being wrong does not automatically make mine right – so it’s proof I’m after.

First of all, I tried to find a record of the marriage between my  Elizabeth and Henry Simmons  – no can do!  If they did get married (and they are shown in the 1881 census as married) then I should be able to find a record of it, but no luck so far.

I then tried to find out where Henry was in the 1891 census  (Elizabeth died in 1890, I have the death certificate for that) but he seems to have disappeared.  I did find 2 children, living with various relatives, whom later checks in parish records showed to be the offspring of Henry & Elizabeth Simmons – so that looks hopeful.  If I can get the birth certifiicate of one of them it may show the mother’s maiden name – and if that is Elizabeth Sarah Hutchings, then I’ll know I’m on track.

So, things to do:-

1. keep looking for marriage certificate – it may be that in fact they did not marry (Elizabeth’s parents did not marry but were shown as such in various censuses).

2. find out more about Henry.  Even his birthdate and place are not certain and his whereabouts after Elizabeth’s death needs to be looked at – I did find 2 possibilities, one a Henry Simmons living as a lodger in Maidstone and noted as being single (see note 1) and the other a Henry Simmons before the Maidstone Magistrate for petty larceny.

3. Follow up the children – I have sent away for the birth certificate of one of them, so fingers crossed that it will reveal what I want to see.

4. Decide, if all this eventually proves my records correct, whether to pass the information on.

Curses!  This is one case where I chose wrongly.  I decided to send for the marriage certificate of Elizabeth and Edward Sullivan to try to clear up the previously-mentioned puzzle.  Foolishly, I looked up the reference number for Edward but decided to send for the certificate in Elizabeth’s name – and guessed that would be Hutchings as that is how the family appeared in the census about then.  I then received a letter from the GRO saying they could not find such a reference.  When I checked, the name she was married under was Edwards. Curses!

After a longer than expected break (caused mainly by computer problems) it’s time to organise my thoughts. 

One of the main ways of finding, or confirming,  information is to send to the General Record Office in the UK for copies of birth, marriage and death certificates of the people concerned.  These certificates often contain extra information (eg name , occupation of father) which can help lead back to an earlier generation. 

I usually send for 5 at a time and once received I copy all relevant information to my genealogy program (the Master Genealogist), to the family history website and to this blog if necessary.  That is a fairly fiddling and time-consuming process.

The certificates cost 7 pounds sterling each (if one has the correct reference number) and the service is very efficient.  I have ordered certificates and received them in the post just 7 days later, which I think must be a record of some sort.  Hats off to the Identity & Passport Service section of the GRO!  The amount I pay for 5 certificates varies between $70 & $80, depending on the rate of exchange.

I love receiving the certificates, it is always interesting to see if I have chosen the correct person or if there is extra information to be obtained.  Sometimes it is a matter of guesswork, and sometimes I guess correctly and other times not.  The last 5 certificates I sent for worked out to be 1 totally wrong, 1 totally right and 3 probably right but still to be checked out a bit further.

So, it’s back to it!

The last 8 posts have outlined the main jobs which are occupying me at the moment.  They are not, by any means, the only ones but I think I have enough to be going on with.  It is probably time to start looking for answers rather than outlining more questions, so, with the help of Ancestry.com, the National Archives UK, sundry other sources and the permission of my bank’s online security system (well, I live in hope)  – and after a short break – I will proceed!  🙂

I mentioned this family in a previous post, but Elizabeth Sarah Hutchings/Edwards, sister to my grandfather Aaron Edwards (on my mother’s side), presents a special puzzle.

I had her married to a Henry Simmons and dying young without children.  However, one of the public family trees published on Ancestry.com has her marrying an Edward Sullivan with a long line of descendants leading to the present day.  So, it’s back to the drawing board, first to find out what  evidence there is for either case, then make a decision, correct my records if necessary and acknowledge the source of the corect information.  As he/she would be some sort of cousin (haven’t worked that out yet)  I would probably get in touch with them, as I haven’t found anyone until now who is researching the Edwards in Hoo Kent – I’m rather hoping they are right and I am wrong!

Robert Hooker was another ggg grandfather.  He married Elizabeth Cleaver in 1812 and had  a daughter, Christiana, in 1819 and a son, James, in 1821.  On his son’s marriage certificate in 1851 he was named as a mathematical instrument maker .  I need to do the following-

1. try to find evidence of parents and birth

2. try to find proof of death – his wife remarried in 1847 , so presumably he was dead by then.  I cannot find him in the 1841 census, perhaps he died before that .  There is an Elizabeth Haines in the 1841 census, so possibly Robert was already dead and she was living with Thomas Haines already and assumed his name (but did not marry him until 1847).   The more I think about it, the more feasible that sounds.  Check it out!!

3. Check the whereabouts of James and Christiana in the 1841 census – and look for other children, possibly William (b. 1816) and Robert (b. 1823) .

ps. just thought of a couple more jobs pertinent to this research –

1. find death of James Hooker – there are two possibilities, one in 1885 and one in 1890, need to send for death certificates to ascertain which is the one

2. curiosity compels me to look up Thomas Haines, although he is not directly in the family line. I have a likely candidate for his death in 1849 and also a marriage  (to Elizabeth Cleaver/Hooker)  in 1847. More certificates to order, if only my bank’s mad online security system will allow – at the moment it is so secure it won’t let me do anything!

No, not those Simpsons, mine are far harder to find.  There are 4 of them-

1. James Leman Simpson  (1776  1849)  –  my ggg grandfather

2. his wife Mary

3. their daughter Mary – (1826-?)  – my gg grandmother and mother to Clara Guy (see earlier blog)

4. their second daughter Clara.

1. James Leman Simpson has whetted my curiosity – the name Leman is unusual (always a bonus for family history searchers) and is sometimes seen as Lemon which could be a surname passed on from his mother’s side.  In the 1841 census he is noted as a piano tuner living in Finsbury, but his daughter Mary was born in Naples in Italy, so the family must have lived there for a while. On his death certificate his occupation is given as “artist”. So, I will try to find out –

 a) more about his parents and birth

b) something about the piano tuning trade – did he go to Italy for this?

c) is there any record of him as an artist?

2. I know nothing about Mary Simpson except her name and the fact that she outlived her husband, so the usual birth, parents etc details remain to be unearthed.

3. Mary Simpson, daughter, married Robert Capon Guy and the main mystery with her is when did she die?  She was still alive in 1871 (census)but Robert remarried in 1875, so she must have died in the interim (unless they were divorced, highly unlikely  but worth checking).  I did send away for what looked like a very good possibility, correct name, age and district, but it turned out to be a single woman, domestic servant, who died as a result of burns after her clothes caught fire at the stove – poor woman!  So, with Mary I must

a) look further in the deaths records

b) check divorce records – never done that before, divorce was not common then, so I’ll need to find out how to go about it

c) check later censuses just in case she is still alive – perhaps living with mother and/or sister Clara or one of her older children

d) check to see if there were any children born between 1862 (Clara) and her death (when found)  – she had been having children every 2 to 3 years until then, so there may be more.

4. Clara , daughter – I know very little of her, need to do all the usual checks.

Well, that lot should keep me going for a while!!

Elizabeth Cleaver was my great great great grandmother. I originally thought her maiden name was Haines as I found an Elizabeth Haines in the 1841 census who seemed to fit the bill.  Eventually though I found her maiden name was Cleaver, she married Robert Hooker in 1812 and after he died she married a Thomas Haines.  When I discovered the name Cleaver it brought back a very old memory to me – I remember my father coming  home in  a rather “relaxed” state after spending the afternoon sharing a few tots of rum with a nearby neighbour whose name was Terry Cleaver.  As I rarely saw Dad in such a state, I must have looked surprised because he explained to me that he & Terry had discovered they were probably related via common ancestors in London.  I thought no more about it then as I was a long way off dicovering an interest in family history, but now it occurs to me  a) how incredible they should meet up like that, in the same street, same town, same country after travelling 13,000 miles (not sure of that in kilometres, must look it up) from their native UK – and b)what a lost opportunity to discover something of my father’s background. 

Anyway, back to Elizabeth!  Now that I have sorted out her names, I must –

1. find her parents if possible and an accurate date of birth for her

2. find her death – somewhere between 1861 – 1871 (she appears in the 1861 census, but not in the 1871 census.

3. find out details of her other children

4. look up her marriage to Thomas Haines in 1847

5. try to find her in the 1841 census – she was then married to Robert Hooker and I can’t find either of them in 1841.

PS – 13,000 miles = 20,917 kilometres. I think I’ll leave the miles reference in though as it brings back another memory of my father – when he was feeling fed up with his job and/or his bosses, he used to say “I’ve travelled 13,000 miles to this job, I can travel 13,000 miles to another bugger” !